Sen. Laursen urged to be bigger voice for Big Horn County and its residents

Sen. Dan Laursen R-Powell was invited to the Dec. 16 meeting of the Big Horn County Commission.  Like Rep. John Winter before him, he fielded legislative questions from the three commissioners as well as Lori Smallwood, Jen Kirk, Gina Anderson, Serena Lipp, Nicole Vigil, LaRae Dobbs and Cozette Winters. Rep. 

Addressing both Winter, who stuck around, and Laursen, Emergency Management Coordinator LaRae Dobbs said, “You are our voice. We are counting on you to do that. The flood waters have opened, and everybody is all in on, ‘We’ve got to cut taxes because it is going to make people happy.’ We’ve got to have somebody to start to build the dam to stop that flow until people can be educated to understand this is affecting everyone. It isn’t just affecting the county. When we cannot provide essential services. If the only way we can do that is to turn things over to the state, do we really want to do that? We need you to vote in ways that benefit your constituents.” 

After the meeting, Assessor Gina Anderson provided the following on the tax bills: “HB0003 – Property Tax Exemption for long-term homeowners and SF0069 – Homeowner Property Tax Exemption were both applicable to the tax year beginning January 1, 2025.  The $300,000 in tax dollars to the county levy was the result of both bills and it affected the 2025-26 budget year.  The 50% (long term homeowners) is not automatic.  If the property owner received it last year, they have to fill out an affidavit for the 2026 tax year to receive it again.” 

Commissioner Bruce Jolley explained to Laursen that a portion of the discussion with Winter was about the state’s eight designated hardship counties which make up 35% of the 23 counties.  “Some of the questions that were posed earlier were, as you guys are in committee talking about, what I feel like is kinda goofy, do you consider what is best for the state or do you think about the 35% of the state that lives in these hardships counties that can’t make it on what you guys are passing?” 

Laursen replied, “Oh yeah. We’re always thinking and talking about the hardship counties. I think $105 (million) is a given (referring to the direct distribution to the counties/towns from the state). That is what the governor says is what he wants. I’m guessing it will be somewhat higher. I don’t think it will be $140 (million) to divide. It will be $105 million.”  He continued that he isn’t sure how the funding will come about. “We’re obviously discussing going the portion of the sales tax, I think. I think that number is right at 5 1/2%” 

Jolley asked for clarification if Laursen was talking about some kind of additional disbursement? Laursen replied that instead of fighting over the $105 million every year, there is some discussion from WAM (Wyoming Association of Municipalities) and WCCA (Wyoming County Commissioner Association) to do a percentage of sales tax. 

Deb Craft, who chairs the commission, asked if that was in place of the direct distribution. Lauren said yes. Dobbs asked if this was a percentage of statewide sales tax or individual counties. Laursen said it was whatever the state was getting. “A share of that portion. I think WAM and the county commissioners came in about 8 1/2 percent. But I don’t think that will be the number. I think we’re around 5 1/2. Maybe a little higher but it would equal about the $105.” 

Jolley asked if this was to help backfill what is being lost on property taxes. He was told “No, that is just the $105 that we’ve always been doing or $120, whatever it is.” 

Commissioner Dave Neves asked, “Are you talking about getting rid of the property tax or is this keeping the property tax and getting rid of the direct distribution and giving the towns and the counties a portion of the sales tax?” Laursen responded, «Right. That is what they are talking about WAM and the counties. Have you been hearing that?”

Neves said he has heard a little about it. “Our position on getting rid of the property tax to totally sales tax is we don’t think that is going to work.” 

Laursen told Neves, “That’s a whole different topic.” 

Neves continued, “If you raise the sales tax to make up that difference in the direct distribution, I think that is going to make a lot of people go to Montana.” 

Laursen said he agreed and that it is easy to go to Montana. 

Commission chair Deb Craft asked, “But that is what you are thinking about doing?” Laursen said he thinks so, but hasn’t spoken to Senator Troy Mckeown, chair of the Revenue Committee. “This is what I’m hearing. Getting rid of the property tax, increasing the sales tax statewide. Make up the difference. Obviously then you have the argument on how you distribute it.” 

Jolley responded, “If it is by county, then Big Horn County, we’re going to raise your sales tax 4 cents. How are you going to live on that? How does that make sense in Big Horn County?” 

Laursen replied, “Well I think if they raise the sales tax, it will be statewide. I think the pool will go there and then it will be distributed. Kinda the way I’m hearing it.” 

Jolley stated that the distribution wouldn’t be based on just what the county collects; Laursen said it better not be. 

County Clerk Lori Smallwood asked if there had been any thought by the legislators on what impact the increased sales tax would have on the additional penny tax that counties and cities get? “Then there is going to be zero appetite for that. Then counties have even fewer ways to generate revenue. We become children of the state. Is the current body (legislative) liking that idea?” Laursen’s response to Smallwood was, “Some are thinking that way. Obviously, it’s in the citizen’s lane ... the property tax issue. It’s got people fired up.” 

Addressing Laursen, Craft said, “We had the discussion about that. Educating the public on what that means. It hasn’t hit them yet. The less property tax we’re taking in. This next budget session we will all see how that first one went. I don’t think the community is connecting the dots.”  

Laursen said he agrees. 

Anderson added that it is the hardship counties that will take the hit. The larger counties have more of a voice and money. They won’t have a problem. 

Dobbs noted, “This is why our representatives and senators from the hardship counties — which is 35% of the counties — have got to band together. You can’t say things like ‘Well, that is what some people are thinking.’ We need to know what you are thinking because you are our voice. We need our voice strong and to be clear on what your constituents want. It isn’t just what we want. It is what we need to keep our county working. We are all committed to making this county work. We wouldn’t be here otherwise.” 

She noted there are jobs in the private sector that pay two to three times more than what county staffers are getting, but they stay because they believe in the system. “The system right now is you guys (Winter and Laursen). We need Big Horn County to join together with those other small counties and push back. I don’t believe that anyone would vote against emergency services being funded but yet they are voting for all of these tax cuts without the stopgap put in place to backfill. We need a revenue stream we can count on so we can fill the positions, provide emergency services and have hospitals that are functioning.” 

County Treasurer Nicole Vigil asked Laursen how he voted on the 50% homeowner’s exemption and the 25% across the board cuts on property tax. She also asked if he thought they were going to be beneficial. He replied, “I’m guessing I voted for them. That was because I’m hearing what the citizens are saying. The voters.” 

Anderson stated that as the assessor she is the one that hears from the people that are mad about their taxes. She said there are very few that actually come in and complain. “You were listening to the people from the other county (Park).” 

Anderson expounded that back in 2020 when many moved here because of COVID-19, making property value and property taxes go up, some relief was sought for people on a fixed income. “What you guys did helped a person that has a house in Arizona and a house here. (Those) who have moved here and paid all that money for property, that made the values go up. They still got the exemption. We wanted something to help the people that needed it. Instead, you guys passed something that made a mess. We saw it happen at the Assessor Association.” 

Adding to that line of thought, Vigil said she receives calls from people wanting exemptions on their multiple homes. 

Anderson added that the intent was to help the people that needed it. “It is just wrong and needs to be fixed. There should be relief for people who can’t pay their taxes but not like this.” 

Laursen acknowledged that he “only hears from Park County. It was lowered and I think the whole intention was to lower it so people could see how much was lost in the property taxes and now we know.” 

He asked if Anderson had a number to give him. She replied $300,000 for just the county. 

He asked if that was in the 18-20% range and that Park County is sitting about there. Anderson said the percentage was much higher in this county. He said knowing that number would be helpful. He also asked for a spreadsheet with all the special districts that would be essential. “I’m just talking about Park County. I would like to do it in Big Horn; we should reach out to the people and actually show them what was lost. I think that is vital.” He noted that the 50% tax cut will be on the ballot next general election. 

Vigil said some people are saying it is great they got their property taxes cut but no one making the bills reached out to the offices that are being impacted. “Nobody asked me about what it’s going to do if we cut registration. What is it going to do if we collect the minerals in this way? They don’t ask. They just hand it to us and say you make it work. It doesn’t work. We don’t have enough money to keep our offices running.” Her office is down a person as is the district court’s office. She believes the legislators should always talk directly to the people in the offices. She offered to provide both legislators a breakdown of all the special districts that shows how little they get financially to function. Laursen said that info needs to get out to the voters. This county has 54 special districts. 

Laursen responded, “I think what people saw was the increase obviously.   Maybe it isn’t as much in Big Horn County up here. House evaluation since 2019. I don’t know if it is 60 or 70% here but it has been in Park County. That is what fired people up. It’s bouncing closer to you obviously. That is what drove it. “

Jolley told Laursen “I don’t mean for this to be real personal but it seems like you kind of know what is going on in Park County but you don’t know what is going on in Big Horn County.” 

Craft asked if there was a way to balance it out with the hardship counties by giving them additional funding. The senator responded that in the direct distribution there is a formula for that, but it isn’t that big. It would be the same with the sales tax distribution. There is talk about trying to increase it a little bit according to Laursen. “It obviously can’t be increased that much”

When asked why that is obvious He stated because “We are outnumbered when we go to vote for that down there.” Meaning that the total number of legislators from the Big Horn Basin is the same number of legislators for Cheyenne alone. Dobbs asked if our local legislators are working with the other hardship counties. She was told yes. 

Deputy County Attorney Jen Kirk said part of the issue is coming from a national political party perspective. “We can’t really beat around that bush. There is a big difference in saying we have to work to remove bloat from the federal government and how that impacts small local communities. Because if you start DOGEing these little counties ... here we are. This has become bigger than the Freedom Caucus. This has become life or death for some of these smaller towns.” 

She continued she understands it is a difficult position when a legislator represents more affluent communities as well as poorer ones. “This has become bigger than a political party standpoint. Someone is going to have to be willing to break from that. I hope people will do that before it is too late.” 

Laursen told Kirk that he hears her and that Park County isn’t that much better than BHC. He is getting the same thing from them. “But I think we need to reach out to our citizens and lets as a group go out and have some town halls if that is what you would like to do.” 

Smallwood asked Laursen what his priorities are for the upcoming season. He replied he is always open and would provide his phone number. He added that Joint Appropriations had met two weeks prior and would be meeting again in another two weeks.  He added they have heard from a lot of the larger state agencies thus far. They are all asking for a lot of money. “The governor has given us his budget, so we are looking to see if we agree with the exception requests or even their standard budget.” 

He continued that the committee has met a lot about developmentally disabled people and trying to get more money in that area. “We will add more money there to go to the contracting people that are out there taking care of these people. We need to do that obviously.” He isn’t sure exactly what the number will be but thinks it will be $20 million or so statewide. The funding will reside with the Wyoming Department of Health. Dobbs asked if any of this funding was going to the schools. The schools are shorthanded and don’t have enough money to provide the services needed for the students on an IEP (Individualized Education Program). She continued that the Department of Health has the largest budget and the most employees. “The more employees that you have, then the more determined they are to have something with their name on it so that they are essential. So maybe if we are looking to cut someplace, we start with the place that has the largest budget with the most employees. Not the services that they provide but the number of employees at the state level who are not providing direct services.” Those services are being provided at the school, municipal and county level, according to Dobbs. They aren’t the ones receiving increased funds but the Department of Health is. More money is needed for the services, she agrees, but the money should go to those providing them directly.

Laursen said he is one of the three-person subcommittee for this topic. This has been an education for him on how the department is spending the money. He believes the director is doing a good job. “It is a lot of money but there are a lot of services out there. I don’t know what to say there.” Dobbs asked if any of the money was going to the schools. Laursen said he would have to look into it. “I’m sure they are getting plenty. If you go to your local schools, how they distribute it might be a concern to me.” Dobbs followed up by asking if Laursen was saying the state is doing a good job but the schools are not. He responded, “We can throw money at them just like we do UW and we don’t know where it goes. Yes.”  Dobbs continued “You are willing to give it to the state but you’re not willing to make sure they are distributing to the schools because you don’t think the schools are doing a good job.” Laursen said he doesn’t know if that money goes to the schools. He would have to look into it. Kirk, who has a child on an IEP, stated that the school in Basin is doing the absolute best job they can with the limited resources. There was also discussion about the limited number of paras available to help with these students. Those positions are turned over frequently. Laursen noted that what the paras are paid is determined by the school district. Vigil and Kirk pointed out that districts can only pay with the money they have. Laursen said it is the school’s funding, and they decide where it is spent. To which, Vigil replied, that this is true at the county level too but if there is no money because the state has cut it. It isn’t on the county. It is on the legislators that are approving the cuts. 

Laursen believes that the Wyoming Business Council (WBC) will “have a tough time surviving. The legislators that are there now are not too happy with the Wyoming Business Council.” He isn’t sure if the WBC has come to this county on projects.  He has one bill he is working on regarding State Guard. “We have the National Guard and then we have the State Guard. I am really worried that if the National Guard get completely called out to go to war, we won’t have anybody here. I think it is vital. It is in statute now because we are tied to asking the federal government if we can do that. So we are going to take that wording out. I’m kind of worried about what is happening military wise with China. Our, what do you want to call them, Taliban or whatever, if they are infiltrated or not. I don’t know. At what point is our infrastructure vulnerable? I don’t know. It worries me.” He also worries about the national debt. 

Jolley, addressing both Winter and Laursen, asked them to keep in mind as they bring forth bills to legislation that BHC is already broke. “There is no way to make that shiny. Everything that you had passed that is an unfunded mandate that goes to the county. That is just one more thing in the hole. Whether it is courthouse security, school security, whatever. One more unfunded mandate is one more thing that we can’t already pay for. If you would keep that in mind.” 

Vigil addressed with Laursen the legislation proposed a cut in the percentage of the license fee registration that goes to the county. The 77% cut would impact the county and the special districts. 

Kirk discussed if there is a way to make the appointment of judges less secretive. “I am begging not to make judges elected officials. It would be disastrous for our legal system. We have a very good system here. There has been talk about it going through the Senate confirmation process. There are ways to make the name available sooner so people can provide feedback. 

Jolley asked if Winter or Laursen were Freedom Caucus members. Winter has stated on several occasions that it is one of the original members. He didn’t respond to the question on this occasion.  Laursen said the Caucus didn’t invite the Senate to become members. 

Jolley followed up with “When votes start coming in, does the Freedom Caucus in lock step or can you have in your own mind that you had a meeting in BHC, I shouldn’t vote for this?” Vigil asked Winter how many times he has note voted the way he was told to vote by the FC. He responded quite a few. Laursen answered “They don’t tell us what to do. I’ve never had that happen and I wouldn’t care if they did tell me.” 

Jolley said he likes some of the things they do, but it is getting nuts. “It isn’t government at the lowest level by any means, which both of you run on, government at the lowest level. You make these decisions and it takes away from government at its lowest level. 

Smallwood asked both Winter and Laursen to discuss any bills they will be sponsoring. Winter explained he had one bill that just came up to address a problem. Laursen said the bill he mentioned about developmentally disabled. He didn’t have others prepared. 

Craft told the legislators she hoped the county wasn’t coming off as whiny. “We are a unique county in how we are divided. I don’t know if anyone else realizes that when you talk about Big Horn County at the state level, we have the north and the south, two senior centers, two road & bridge, we have law enforcement from Frannie to Hyattville.  Fifty-four special districts, four school districts. We are very unique compared to a lot of places around the state. I hope that message can get across and get to somebody. Some of these counties have no idea what you deal with here.”